Episode 006 - Guest Interview: Justina Michaels
Guest Justina Michaels joins us today. Justina is the owner of Fitting Fêtes, a New York City-based event design and planning company. Topics include sky-high luxury event budgets, how all New Yorkers compromise, and the importance of nail art.
Listen, follow and review us on your go-to podcast directory: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | Google Podcasts
Show Notes
-
Guest: Justina Michaels
Follow Justina on Instagram
Check out Justina’s website Fitting Fêtes
A Woman is No Man by Etaf Rum
The White Calico Flower by Georgia O’Keefe at The Whitney Museum
Homework:
Self-reflect on where you are in the talking-about-money journey, and understanding why you feel they way you do about it, and where you want to be.
We would love to hear from you! Email us your questions and ideas at podcast at artbymegan dot com
-
Megan: All right, episode six.
Friend: On today's show, we're talking about all things fancy and luxurious, with our special guest and friend of the show, Justina Michael's. PS. I was thinking about this. Does art meet finance equals fancy?
Megan: Yes. Oh, so poetic,
Friend: I know.
Megan: But also we are fancy. I say that as my second day wearing like a full sherpa outfit, but I think we're fancy people.
Friend: I might be wearing joggers, but.
Megan: She says joggers that's fancy right there. Okay. Anyways, we like fancy things and we love Justinas. So that's a perfect, perfect thing. I love the sound of this topic.
Friend: Yeah, me too. I can't wait. Let's dive right into it.
Megan: But first The Scene.
Friend: The Scene.
Megan: So what's new in the art and finance world?
Friend: Well, I thought since we were going high end today, we should talk about how the uber wealthy have been spending their money on art.
Megan: Yes. Tell me everything you know.
Friend: And the timing on that is good because we're just past the year end accounting windows. This is such a like banker view on talking about art. Those of us who care about these things call this season earning season, which is when the accountants are all done, finalizing the financial results for the prior year. And then they start announcing their results to shareholders. So it turns out that the art world is on a similar schedule.
I have been seeing earnings stories coming out of galleries and auction houses, and, oh man, are we in for some new. news.
Megan: Oh, my gosh.
Friend: Yeah. So before I give you the answer about sales volumes, let's start with a guess. I would like you to guess, what do you think the total value of global auction sales of fine art was last year, 2021.
Megan: I'm going to guess.
Friend: You can guess. we were in a pandemic and traveling around to see and purchase art. And people who were gainfully employed was supposedly restricted.
Megan: I think it was probably the highest it's ever been, or I don't know a number. I don't know how to guess numbers.
Friend: I know it's hard, but you are right. It is higher. It was a record year.
Megan: Yeah. I know that because I can feel it in the world. Like I can feel it in my bones, my economic third sense? My, my third eye for numbers. No, but I think, I don't know, like billions, millions.
I don't understand the differentiation, but I do know that it was probably humongous and unpredictably so.
Friend: It was, it was, six and a half billion.
Megan: Woah.
Friend: Which is a really big number. Like It's so many zeros that it's hard to put that in comparison to normal stuff. But to give you a reference that was a 74% increase from 2020. yeah.
Also to, just to just give some, like, I did a little research on, okay, well, what is, what is six and a half billion?
Like what else is kind of in that range? So we get a sense for what kind of a number that is. So six and a half billion is just a small one and a half billion, more than the entire operating budget of the world health organization. It is 1 billion more than the value of all the land owned by McDonald's restaurants. And it is one and a half billion shy of what was raised by a government and health entities to develop a COVID-19 vaccine.
Megan: Oh my God.
Friend: And, uh, well, well below the 20 billion we all collectively spent on Netflix last year.
Megan: Oh yeah. Yeah, once you get some billions it's, it's hard to comprehend it, you know,
but. 74% increase from the year before.
Friend: I know, that's why I wanted to like put it in place with a couple of other items or so I was shocked when I started looking at this and, you know, a good banker will follow the money and try to figure out like, where's it coming from? Why, What are they doing with it? I ended up going down a few rabbit holes, and that will probably help us with future episodes of The Scene. I mean, there's a few interesting things I found when I started following the money, uh, in art, but I thought you would find that interesting.
Megan: Okay. But what I want to know is like a why we have to dig deeper into this, but also I think are people like hiding their money more and more in art? Is it becoming like a nasty or dirtier business?
Friend: The short answer. And that's some of the things that I, that I was finding was like the relation of art to financial crime and money laundering and crypto and all of that. Yes. The short answer is yes.
Megan: Because crypto, I don't want to do a whole episode on because I'm like too old maybe, or I don't understand it yet, yet, but I have downloaded some apps stay tuned. I feel like crypto to me, screams money laundering and like, oh, I just want to paint stuff.
But and then I'm like, maybe everyone's always been laundering their money into art.
So maybe that's a whole nother episode.
Friend: Yeah. I think eventually we should go there. I too am just in the phase of trying to educate myself and I don't know that I could speak about it intelligently right now, but I'm definitely interested in it. I think there's, a lot there.
Megan: There's got to be a great guest out there. That's like, I'm an expert in art heists.
Friend: Yes.
Megan: Gasp
I don't mean the criminal. I want like a non-criminal.
Friend: No. but there's a, there's a whole podcast, The Heist, which my husband loves. And, they frequently will talk about art heists. So maybe there's something there. What about you, Megan? What are you thinking about these days? How are the morning pages?
Megan: I mean the morning pages. I don't know if it's an age, like wisdom factor that's entering my world. I do not have more time. I've never had less time in my life. And for some reason, the morning pages are still part of my schedule, which I'm like, pat on the back.
Friend: That's right. Go. You.
Megan: I don't know if it's because I need structure so badly or if I need brainstorming or if I just love it, but it's such a good practice for me.
Okay. Another book recommendation in which I now, after thinking about it, realize it has mostly nothing to do with art. However, it was a shocking book that needs to be mentioned. It's wildly insane and depressing, but I do think every woman and man on the earth should have to read it. It's that good.
It's entitled, "A Woman is No Man." It's by a new author named Etaf Rum. She's Palestinian American, and she lives in New York City or she's from New York City. I think the reason I like this book so much is because it's written about my specific old neighborhood that we lived in for a time in Brooklyn called Bay Ridge.
She perfectly, captured the fragmentation of streets blocks and how, you know, like in, in many cities in the world, but specifically in Brooklyn, it's one block is this country. The next block is a completely different world. I remember getting lost once and being like, what, where am I?
Like, where on the globe am I?
Friend: It's like, Alice in Wonderland.
Megan: yes, yes, exactly. Like it's an other worldly experience. She captured it so beautifully. It's. Heart-wrenching book about a lot of super serious, difficult topics involving women, violence, immigration, every topic that's hard, but I still feeling it was amazing and needs to be mentioned.
Friend: Yeah, for sure. Listen, I think you're at the point in your career where if you say this is interesting, go look at it. People will look at it. I think that it can just be a good read on its own. And The Scene is what are we doing to keep ourselves interested in intellectually challenged and entertained.
And I think it falls in the category, so I will allow it.
Megan: thank you. I, I do think maybe the tie-in is that there is a character in the book. I don't want to reveal too much, but there's a character who is the rebel in this traditional Palestinian American family.
And she. Is fictional, but I'd like to have her as a guest on the episode, like on an episode. But I guess since she's getting fictional, we could have the author on, but just the imagination of this author to create a character that is rebellious in a way that you and I would like love to hang out with.
Friend: Yeah.
Megan: So just read it and then report back. It's good.
Friend: I'll put it on my reading list. Thank you. All right. Okay. Let's get into The Main Exhibit for the day.
The Main Exhibit. All right. We're super excited to be joined by Justina Michael's today. Hello, Justina!
Justina: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Friend: Yeah,
Megan: I'm here too. I was just plugging in my computer. Hi, yea, here.
Friend: Yay. So we love Justina. She's a mutual friend and, we love her for so many reasons, primarily because of her ability to just get things done and be successful and running the show, uh, in her own right in New York City, as an independent and, I love her decisiveness and I could go on and on.
Megan, do you want to add any?
Megan: I mean, the gushing could be a whole episode. She's just like very genuine and quite bad-ass and very lovely. So it's like a perfect package in our world.
Justina: Thank you. That's so kind.
Megan: You're welcome.
Friend: Justina, you know, would you like to tell our listeners a little bit about yourself other than the gushing? Like what do you do and who are you?
Justina: Sure. Yes. I am Justina Michaels. I am a New York city based wedding planner and event designer. So that means that I live here in New York City, but we plan events all over the country and, internationally as well, which is pretty exciting. And been doing that for the last almost 11 years in May.
Megan: Wow.
Justina: Yeah.
Megan: That's a long time. I'm I didn't even know. That's amazing. You should be quite proud.
Justina: Thank you. I know time really is pretty warped these days, but I feel like it's, it's also just a decade, more than a decade. Just feels so surreal in our world as well.
Megan: That's so wild. So like, I can't be proud of you cause I haven't been in business that long, but I'm proud of you as a friend, so that's incredible.
Friend: yeah.
Megan: All right. So here we go. We're just gonna start with these crazy questions.
So my favorite question, which is like the background behind this podcast is what do you do all day? Because once I was with my friend here, Friend at dinner and I just yelled at her. What do you do all day? So please let's begin with that.
Justina: Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I wish I had a very straightforward answer for you, but of course, every day in my world is so different. Wear so many different hats as a business owner and also an event planner. So it typically starts with coffee. That's a pretty important part of my day.
That's how we all get going. And, the motivation to get out of bed sometimes in the morning, and it really starts with my to-do list, which I try to organize the night before. I'm definitely one of those people that was the diehard bullet journal girl for a long time and has sort of transitioned into other digital forms for my business and my life to keep things organized.
But I liked. Sort of tackle my hardest thing at the beginning of the day, if I can. My priority list is very long and I am a master of reprioritizing my priority list. So it is very important that I sort of holistically take a look at my day and, try to help my clients as best I can in what they need.
And so looking at my entire client list and what I have to get done and what I need to make a little bit more time for, to prepare for meetings, these days we are at home for a lot of our meetings, which is, great and, uh, such a privilege, I'm very fortunate to be able to stay safe here at home. But I definitely miss that dynamicism of my day. We have lots of meetings right now, and lots of different organizational tasks and lots of design meetings, which is very exciting. We're at the beginning of our season, which is really lovely. And also like a really wonderful excitement that's building up towards our, our main event season these days.
But some days I need breaks and I need to be a well-rounded professional as well, and sort of take a break from the office. And so today was actually a great example. I took out three hours to go to a museum.
Megan: Oh, that's so good.
Justina: I haven't done it a very long time and used to do early, early in my career, I used to do it religiously.
I was very, very adamant. I was going to at least one museum a week, sometimes two, I needed so much creative energy and I needed a lot of learning and understanding. And it was really building my business, trying to understand what that creative process look like for myself. And as things progressed, I got busier and busier with tasks and it got harder.
And then of course our lovely pandemic hit and everyone was really home more than they want it to be. And it was a. Harder to get out there. But I decided that with all the safety measures we have now, it was time to go and be inspired. And I, I really loved it. I needed it so badly and I felt so at home and so happy to be walking around and inspired by everything around me.
So I was even more invigorated for the rest of my meetings for the rest of the day. Still have work to do after this as usual, but I tried to take off, you know, a day or two during the week, whether that's a Tuesday or a Saturday, it's really different every week. I don't keep very strict hours for myself because my clients work nine to five or nine to nine or various hours.
So, my personal philosophy is just that I'm here to help and help everything get done at once. And if that means meeting with my clients on weekends or evenings, then that is what I do.
Megan: Wow.
Friend: So more of your days are, are probably like that then the big event, right? It's it's probably more, is it like 90% behind the scenes? 99% behind the scenes work? Like those days, like this.
Justina: Yes, I would say so. Yes, we have select event days, of course, that we pencil into our calendar and we have meetings that we have to have in person when we are getting closer to those event days. But other than that, it's a really, a lot of behind the scenes work. Luckily, we have things like zoom and conference calling and the ability to really do so much behind the scenes from home.
So I'm less active and sort of the more physical part of my job is really reserved for actual event days that we're on site.
Friend: Yeah.
All right. Well, zoom, I think every person we interview is going to talk about meetings on zoom.
I think this is, this is the new used to be email. We used to tall moan about our email.
Megan: Yeah, for real.
Friend: So. Here's how we're going to do this today. I am going to start asking you some finance questions and, uh, hopefully that doesn't kill the mood. And then Megan has some more sort of creative side questions for you.
I'll start with one that, there's no right answer. We're really just trying to, get a sense for what are people other than us thinking about when we, when we say this. So when you think about finance, what do you think?
Like, what does it make you think about?
Justina: I think, I think if we're playing word association, then money is the first one, right? Like money management. Then I think. And then I think yuck because my former self really didn't want anything to do with numbers or money, I had no interest in going into that world at all. And so, of course it's a part of my daily life and part of my job, but, that's where my mind is sort of immediately goes when I think of all of that sort of in conjunction with one another.
That's just the honest breakdown.
Friend: Good. No, I like that. I like the progression there.
Justina: Yep. Thank you.
Friend: We ended in yuck. So that's. It may not be like there, it may not be obvious the connection between these luxury and very creative and bespoke events. But at least in my mind, it's hard for me to disconnect events like weddings from money and like from the finances of it. And I just love to know how much things cost and how, you. know, if you're dealing with different vendors, like who who's charging, what, and who's maybe overcharging or undercharging. And I feel like you would get that perspective. You have that. Kind of fly on the wall perspective on it.
And then you also probably have a sense for how clients are deciding when to save and, and splurge. And so when I think about some of these events, it's like, for me, it's like blinking money and I'm sure that's not typical for a lot of the people you work with, both of you. Right. I just want to be honest and say like, I hear, I hear events and I think like money, I think like, there's just like, people will just spend seemingly endless amounts on their weddings. And, so question for you, there is how often do finances and budget and other people's money like how often does that come up when you're working with clients and with vendors?
Justina: Yeah, no that's, I mean, those are great questions. It comes up every day. It comes up in my client work constantly. I specialize in full service in my industry, which means that I start from the very beginning and we really build an event out. We hire the vendors, we help our clients determine what their budgets are and how they want to spend their money.
And that's a challenge when you need a wedding planner to help you do that. And we also have to determine our prices and they have to determine how much they need a wedding planner and what those prices are. So all of that is very. Bundled up into a complicated thought process for the client, of course.
But once I am hired and we have a budget to set, it does speak volumes about the type of event that they will have, because we all need to budget for events. And every type of event that you have, whether it's a birthday party or it's an extravagant wedding or a large corporate affair, there is money involved and money exchanged.
So I think that I have a unique position as a wedding planner to take a big chunk of money and help a client divide it all up. So we get to sit down and prioritize their needs and decide what is that they want, but also manage their expectations. If this big ball of money is not enough to really create what it is that they really want, which is also, you know, very heartbreaking and hard. But we always start with prioritization and. Figure out what it is that they really, really want out of this event. And then we give them some hard truths about what it costs and we try to help them as much as possible, uh, that said most clients in the luxury wedding business and the wedding business in general go over their budgets at least 15 to 20%. Sometimes as much as 50. So they, certainly evolve in that process. And I think once you are spending a certain amount of money, Spending more of it is justified once you understand why the cost is higher, or you understand why someone costs a little bit more than you were expecting them to, or in comparison to another vendor.
So switching over to the vendor side vendors costs of various amounts of money and in a city like New York, you have so much diversity in so many options, and it's very hard as the average consumer to understand what it is that you're paying for and what you're getting for it. So going through that process is really why my job exists just to help them understand the differences in pricing and why someone might be priced for a certain reason.
I always try to be supportive and transparent about the fact that that is a business owner who can set their own prices for whatever experience level they have and what it is that they're going to deliver to that client. But they also get to decide what it is that, you know, they really want and expect from that person as well.
So there is a lot of money exchange and things cost such a various amount of money. I mean, a photographer can be $3,000. They can be. $30,000. So we have such a large amount of money to distribute in a wedding and we have to decide what's most important. And the more money we have, the more options we have in some ways to help them create that luxury event that they're really dreaming about.
Friend: That sounds like of fun.
Justina: It can be.
Friend: Yeah.
I mean that makes budgeting sound fun.
Justina: Yeah, it can be, it can be, it can be such a pleasure for someone who is also an event designer, which I am. I come from a background in art. And so the most fun part of my job is designing the weddings and having more money to play around with, to be creative, to think of some beautiful, interesting, new things that we haven't done before does take a lot of funds.
So having the ability to do that as such a dream in such a privilege.
Friend: You don't have to answer this question, please do, but, um, can you give us a sense for like an average budget? Like I have no concept of like, what is, what is the high end Of the market spending?
Justina: Of course. So in a city like New York people spend quite a bit of money. We do have, uh, quite a bit of a luxury market. There is a premium market, which I would say is more than that $75 to $125,000, which is a pretty expensive pocket.
Friend: Megan and I are already like, picking our jaws up from the floor.
That was premium. Okay.
Justina: Yes, that's premium. Um, the luxury market is really $150 and above, so that can go even higher.
Megan: I just got full body chills. I have a rash.
Friend: That's like the down payment on a very, very nice place.
Justina: Yes, we, we do typically work with budgets between, you know, 75 to 200,000 is sort of the meat and potatoes of my business. But, we have gone higher and we have occasionally done some budgets for smaller events that are lower. Your budget is not necessarily indicative of the type of venture you're going to have. If you have 20, 40 people and you're still spending $50,000.
Friend: Okay. That is iluminating.
Justina: Yes.
Friend: if it's okay. Can we shift and just talk about your money for a bit, like as much as you're comfortable. I do have to advise you that we are on a recorded line and this conversation may be used for training purposes. Don't you love it. when they say that when you call the bank?
Megan: And you're like, I called help from a professional, like help, someone.
Friend: Okay. So did you have a chance to look at the graphics that we shared? The, the grid and the scale? Just wondering where you would place yourself on either of those whichever speaks to you.
Justina: Yeah. I think if I were to choose, a corner of your graphic, there would probably be more of the creative expression splurger. I tend to be an emotional spender, and I am much more of a logical saver now than I ever used to be. It's definitely shifted over the years. But I think I'm, I'm very willing to splurge on things that matter to me and that are important.
So that's really where I'm sort of stuck in a lot of ways, is that splurging, but not splurging on like designer handbags. It's more like I buy all the organic vegetables and get very excited about it. So,
Friend: And you do live like a block from whole foods.
Justina: yes, exactly. So I, I go to the good stores.
Yep.
Megan: I feel like when we talked about it, when I was interviewed about this exact same question, I was, my answer was the same, very similar, because it's like a micro splurge, right? Like you're splurging on what matters to you, but it's like my $6 latte to someone is probably not a splurge. You know? Like, it's like your version of extremity.
Justina: Right. Yes, exactly. I think little extravagance or kind of more exciting sometimes like that quality of life is where I want to be spending my money, if at all possible, sometimes the bigger things just seems so unattainable or you attain them and then it's somehow deflating and disappointing. Cause it's just so expensive to the point where you were just mostly sad.
You spent the money and not about the thing you spent the money on.
Megan: Totally.
Friend: All right. Cool. Thank you. We're just mapping that out over time with all of our guests and seeing if we see any patterns and you know, if anyone feels the need to come back and tell us later that they moved quadrants.
Justina: Yeah, I hope I do move quadrants, that would be very exciting for me.
Friend: I don't think there's a right quadrant to be in, especially when I hear you both talk about the way that you're splurging.
Like I think that's a very rewarding space to be in. Right. So
no judgment on the quadrant.
Justina: Thank you. Yes.
Friend: so in terms of, managing finances, do you manage the finances of your own business do you outsource that?
Justina: I outsource some of it. So I have software that helps me keep track of transactions and client payments, invoicing, things like that. But I do sort of look it over and I have some outside support to sort of, look through everything and make sure I'm doing it correctly. And, but I do all my invoicing still.
I sort of enjoy understanding that part of my business and trying to keep track and because we have a small amount of clientele with larger transactions. Not so much like another small business that we have to outsource that,
Friend: Right, That's probably feels good to stay on top of it too, to know exactly. Like if you can afford to upgrade your zoom
Justina: Yes. Exactly. Yeah. All the little expenses. Yes. Now not the most glamorous part of my job and not the part that I love doing but part I still make time for.
Friend: All right. Cool. I want to make sure we leave time for a Megan here and don't talk about money the whole time. But just, you know, another maybe interesting one for listeners who don't live in New York or would love to, and think it's just so expensive. How do you afford to live and run a business in one of the most expensive cities in the world?
Justina: Yeah, that's such a, that's such a great question. I think if I had looked at finances more carefully before I started my business, knowing how expensive New York is, I may never have started because the reality of how expensive it is to live here and not knowing how much money is going to come in, but also not understanding how expensive it is to run a business.
I mean, just taxes alone for people who are self-employed, health insurance, all the things that you sort of need to set up for yourself. If you're running your own business and not traditionally employed by employer is staggering and very challenging to balance. But I would just say that for me, balance is where I find comfort and manage my stress is just sort of compromising where I feel I can compromise because everyone is compromising in New York.
Unless you're in that upper upper tier, no one is sort of living their best happiest life, spending all the money that they could ever wish. I don't always have the same amount of funds that my clients do. So, you know, I'm not living as glamorously as they are. Some of the time. I'm very happy to help them create the most gorgeous event or wedding that they will ever have if they wish.
And that's my job, but for me, Living here is the dream. And I, I love every part of it, all the opportunities that it affords me. And so I'm happy to splurge on fancy groceries, but cut back on other little things, like I take the Metro everywhere. I walk a lot. I'm happy to not be in a super fan of Uber.
So I do all the little things that I can to cut back where I feel I can comfortably cut back. And, that is where I sort of draw the line for myself of being able to stay here and live comfortably in whatever definition that means to me. I know for everyone, their level of comfort might be a little bit more vacations or it might be more upgraded services or whatever it is that they have in their buildings, or, you know, complimentary things that they love in their lives.
But for me, it's just sort of a holistic balance of trying to figure out where I can cut back as well to make sure that I'm, I'm happy in my life. And that's the goal is just happy, not super rich, necessarily.
Friend: Smart. It sounds, it sounds like you're making some, you know, the decisions you need to, to make it work and that's smart.
Justina: That's what I would advise to anyone. Just trying to figure out where you're gonna compromise. I think New Yorkers know that very well. We all have to find apartments and nobody loves every single apartment that they visit. And there's always something wrong with it. And you learn to love that apartment because it's your apartment and you're happy there and you can afford it.
Kind of how you make all your decisions in New York, little by little.
Friend: Yeah, how you survive. All right. One last one for me. What is the measure of success for you when it comes to your business or your finances? How do you measure success?
Justina: Yeah. I think historically for me, money has not been a measure of success. I don't look at my business as needing to make X amount of money in order to be successful. It's always great to make more money in your business because you're successful and you're doing a great job and being able to afford other things in your life is absolutely wonderful.
And it's great if we can grow your wealth, especially as a woman, but my measure of success in my business is always making my clients happy and, and leveling up my business in ways that I never expected I would. So being able to create something new; design a new type of event; create a new experience for a client, at the end of the day, just making them happy and knowing that I had a large part in creating that happiness in that brand new start to their life in a wedding is all I really need to continue. Money is great. And I will always be able to sort of balance all of that and make sure that I'm doing a good job. But for me, the success really comes from the satisfaction I have in the work I do and why I'm going to continue to be in this business as long as I want.
Friend: That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you for talking about the money side with me.
I appreciate that.
Megan: I feel like it wasn't as scary as you might thought it would be.
Justina: No, it wasn't a
totally wasn't.
Megan: It's like you think about these questions. And then you'd look back and you think of maybe what you would have answered as like a younger person and how terrifying the questions might've felt then and now are like, well, you know, I guess it's time to talk about it.
So this is good.
Justina: Yes, absolutely.
Megan: loved your success answer. That's really illuminating because there's like such a, there is such a balance there, so was such a great answer. Okay. So we're going to hit the artist side of your brain
we have depleted the other side, hopefully. I have always wanted to know how do you, so I'm an abstract painter.
I don't take anything concretely and turn it into something in a step-by-step process. Right? My brain just doesn't compute that way. But so in your line of work, how do you take like a Pinterest board or your own mental image or your own like dream based on observations and turn it into an actual reality?
Justina: that's such a good question as well. I think because I've always been. A visual person and a visual learner. I've always, really thrived off of images and pictures, even in grade school, to facilitate and kind of learning that I have, that I've created a process of trying to understand what I'm seeing visually and then sort of go back to my computer and a lot of research and I do a ton of research. That's really a key part of my business is just that I'm always interested in learning and understanding what it is that I'm seeing. And I'm interested in understanding the process of my vendors. So for example, when I first started my business, I was terrified.
I thought, you know, I don't know how I'm supposed to do this thing that I don't know how to do, because I was very excited to do it, but I didn't actually physically know how to do it or mentally or emotionally invest in all of this. So I decided that I needed to understand everyone else's jobs first.
So I talked to photographers, I talked to makeup artists. I talked to cake designers. I took a cake decorating class.
That was one of. Most comical and deceivingly hard classes by the way that you would ever imagine. But I felt a lot of interest and satisfaction from understanding what that world looked like so that I could help manage it and I could help understand their limitations or all the work that goes into it, not just to understand their pricing and things like that, but also to help advise my clients as to what it is that they were choosing and how they were going about planning the event little by little.
So when I'm doing something like events, I'm looking at a lot of different images of what other people have done before, because Pinterest is just full of lots of inspiration. And it's such a wonderful tool for visual interest, but trying to create something new from that means really taking a lot of that. Um, and luckily we have some new technology now that the event industry never had, that is similar to a CAD program for an interior decorator, but we do have programs now that help you actually visualize what it is that you are creating.
So it's more of a 3d model of tables and chairs and floral arrangements. And it's not going to be as nuanced as something brand new and the exact flowers and exact colors, but it does help walk yourself and your clients through an event design, especially when you're walking into a room. So that helps enormously and kind of helping me when I'm designing as well.
Megan: I think the process is so cool. I think it's so interesting. I can't, I can't like imagine step one through 1 million. You know, like there's so many parts, you know, so wild. Okay. What would you say to a creative person or an aspiring artist who would like to get into your world or who perhaps maybe doesn't want to become a wedding professional, but wants to approach a luxury
market.
Justina: I guess my biggest piece of advice would be to, to research that industry as much as you can, but also get out in front of it, not stay behind your computer. There's only so much you can do when you're just researching and looking at images and pretending you understand something that you haven't experienced.
So experience is very valuable and that's one piece of advice that I didn't take really for myself because I was in my late twenties and stubborn and I, I was changing careers and I absolutely did not want to interrupt for someone or shadow anyone. I didn't have a big ego about it, I knew I had a ton to learn, but the artist in me didn't want to copy someone else's work. I wanted to discover what it was like for myself, but that said there's so much value in understanding what that world just looks like to begin with and understanding visually, what it looks like. Experience, you know, the actual pieces that come together, especially on an event day, because it can be very fast paced, very stressful, very difficult to understand.
I have had various assistance throughout the years and I had another brand new one last year. One of my events assistants and she was just so taken back by how hard it was. And she had always wanted to be in the wedding world and was so excited about it. But she had been working, you know, for a while.
And she said that working a wedding was the hardest she's ever worked in her entire life. And she just had no idea how hard it was and how difficult and. She was really complimentary to me, which was so kind about my calm, because I get told a lot that I'm just very calm during the most stressful times, which I take a lot of pride in because I am. But it comes from years of experience of understanding that this is the world I signed up for. And there are many, many messy moments and difficult moments. And my job is to help piece it back together. If it falls apart temporarily and make sure that we're, we're moving along and we're doing our best, they're not perfect.
It's sort of any performance is not perfect. You know, it's almost like we're putting on a Broadway show and we hope it's perfect. You know, some nights it's not, and we just kind of keep moving along as best we can. So I try to keep that in mind and, I try to show my events assistants what that world is like and give them a realistic view of it.
But until you're there until you're at the event, until you understand how those little pieces come together behind the scenes, into the event day, it's very hard to understand what it is that you're sort of walking yourself into. So I would say that experience is so invaluable. And also just knowing that you can handle stress because the luxury world does involve a lot of high expectations.
And when you're dealing with a lot of money, people expect a lot in return, which they should, you should absolutely expect a lot for your money. You know, if you're buying a bag from Marshall's and it falls apart, you may not be that surprised or disappointed, but if you're buying one from Chanel, you expect that Chanel is going to stand by in that bag and it's gonna last you a lifetime.
So I think that's important to keep in mind.
Megan: Okay. A little bird told me Justina,
Justina: Yes.
Megan: that you're into an art form of your own.
Justina: Am
Megan: I?
Yeah, you're an artist.
You're doing a thing. A nail artist.
Justina: Yes.
Megan: What's going on? Is this just like a little, is this your unicorn space?
Justina: Yes. Unicorn space has popped up on all my event pages now. So
Megan: Yeah. It's the new, it's the thing.
Justina: I have always loved nail art and my mother was horrified as a child thinking I was going to go into this professionally, after all the enormous amount of money that she spent on my schooling, But, I loved the creative expression of nail art. I loved even when I couldn't physically do it and pull it off as a young kid, I loved how interesting other people's nails were. And I grew up in an area, the city where a lot of women had interesting nail art. And so I was always just staring at everybody's hands and looking at it. And I started to dabble in it when I had some time off years ago. And just try to, you know, learn the actual practice of nail art, which was just fun.
And it was an amateur skill that I had. And then when I started doing events, I realized that it put me in such a great mood to have my nails done. As a lot of women feel it's just so much fun to have very smooth, shiny glittery nails. It's become a thing people enjoy and I began to think that it would be so much more fun if my nails actually matched my events.
Megan: my That's so cute.
Justina: I started to sort of get into the mood and it started with the traditional, like red Bordeaux color for, you know, a winter wedding and, you know, a white nail. And, you know, I just started with the basics and then I started adding a little bit more design and then it just kind of builds from there. So now I really try to take a little element of my events and I try to add it to my nails and I spend a little bit of money getting my nails done by women who really know what they're doing, and supporting some local salons in my area. And it, it just kicks it up a notch for me. It sort of clues me in, I use my hands all day long sometimes.
To the point where spending all this money to nails is so silly because I'm ripping up boxes and opening up candles, and I'm doing all kinds of things on event days that you need your hands for. But looking down at my hands and sort of feeling a little more polished, if you will gives me so much pleasure and fun.
Megan: What a good nail pun!
Friend: Like part of your, part of your work dress.
Justina: Yes. It's part of my uniform.
Friend: Do people notice, do guests and brides and vendors that do they notice that you're on, you know, on brand with the event?
Justina: They do. Yes. Usually I have a few people notice, during an event day it's usually the couple or the bride, or sometimes somebody I'm working very closely with for the day, but it always just puts a little pep in my step and I'm always just so I'm so excited, sort of a pre wedding or event day ritual that I really enjoy.
It's a me time that I can have. And you know, nobody really cares what the wedding planner looks like because you're sort of behind the scenes, but I take so much pride in my appearance and I was raised by a woman who always taught me to dress for the job you really want. And I am in the job I really want.
So instead of wearing a suit all day, I wear, you know, very beautiful black clothing that is very elegant and polished, and I want to look like someone who's running the show, but I also want to add a little, a little bit of me in there and a little bit of pizzazz. So you'll always see
me in a black dress and some fancy nails.
Friend: I love it.
Megan: That's so cool. It's super unique, but it's also like when you said you looked down at your hands, like you're doing so much work, but it's such a good reminder too. It's like so symbolic, some deep stuff.
Now we're going to do a little rapid fire.
Are you ready? Okay. The tinier the answer the better, but I will also understand if you have to go on a tangent because sometimes I do that.
Friend: We can't follow our own advice.
Megan: Because you've met me and you know, there's no, yes or no answer.
Justina: Yup.
Megan: Ready? Dogs or cats.
Justina: Dogs.
Megan: Oh, good job.
Do you have a dog?
Justina: I don't. I want one it's in the works. It's in the budget. Exactly.
Megan: Next one is a hard one for women of our age, but Tik Tok or Instagram?
Justina: Instagram, not, not a Tik Tok girl.
Megan: It gives me anxiety. Tea or coffee?
Justina: Coffee.
Megan: A lot.
Justina: A lot. over the scale.
Megan: How many cups a day?
Justina: I've gotten it down to two and I do still drink tea. I enjoy tea. I think tea is very beautiful, but it will never replace my coffee.
Megan: No, no, no, that's ridiculous. Wine or a cocktail?
Justina: Wine.
Megan: Red or white?
Justina: Ooh, that's a tough one. I do like both. That's a tough one. It depends on the type, right? I'm a very snobby wine drinker.
So if you give me a Chardonnay, I would rather have some water. That is how I feel about that.
Megan: And that is the title of our episode. Thank you very much. We're done here. Okay. Mountains or beach?
Justina: Beach definitely.
Megan: Gold or Navy. Yeah, definitely. Your, your shiny lady, what was your worst subject in school?
Justina: Geometry. It's so embarrassing, but it was geometry. I absolutely detested geometry.
Megan: We're doing a whole episode on like us, as women being told we were about at math in high school. So stay tuned for that.
Friend: So we'll call you.
Megan: Hey, guess what? You're also bad at math.
Friend: I was actually thinking that when you were talking about the budgeting for the clients and how very practical that is, like, that's not scary to do wedding budgets. You're just dividing up a pie And deciding how big the pieces are.
Megan: And I was like, how old they should be teaching math in school. It's not like it doesn't matter. It, it could just be like how to deal with your finances. Any anyhow, what was your favorite book? Don't make me cry.
Justina: Yeah, no, I can't. That, that was just all I ever wanted to read. It was the first book that made me feel something, you know, really just like excited about life. I know that sounds so corny, but it's true. I just was like, wow, this is family. This is like, you know, I really dove into that world and it's always been such a special special book to me.
Megan: Love it.
Your favorite artist living or dead?
Justina: Georgia o'Keeffe.
Megan: Oh,
love her. That totally matches your vibe. Cause it's like elegant lady, like peaceful,
all the things.
Friend: Can you tell us about it so we can put it in the show notes.
Justina: Yeah, this is, the White Calico flower by Georgia. O'Keeffe it's at the Whitney museum, or at least it's in their permanent collection. And I just, I love it. It's it's very nuanced. It's almost sort of, like a mono graphic. So it, it really is just like nuanced shading.
And I just think it's so beautifully done. I could stare at it forever. It makes me so calm and it feels so peaceful. And I have such a, a large affection for Georgia. O'Keefe, I can look at her paintings and always get something from them. So I, yeah, I've been a long time fan of her work since I was a little girl.
Megan: Again, totally on brand for you.
Last one, best restaurant in New York City?
Justina: It's impossible.
Megan: I know that was a trick question.
Justina: I can't choose a restaurant because I've been a lifelong New Yorker. And one of my favorite things about New York is always trying somewhere new and always being surprised and, New York's also like that where this is my tangent answer, by the way. You're welcome.
Megan: No, I love It.
Justina: One of my favorite things about New York is that it's always evolving. I mean, there are restaurants that are not here anymore that were here a few years ago that have been here for a long time. We're always having new restaurants pop up and the newest, coolest thing and the newest Poke restaurant and Mac and cheese restaurant and things like that.
But you can go to a restaurant and have a bad experience and go back and have an amazing one and then go back again. And it's terrible. I mean, it's hard to have that consistency in New York to the point where you would say like, this is my favorite restaurant in New York. I of course have neighborhood favorites and things like that.
Interesting things like Blue Hill that always surprise you and have such interesting things. But honestly, I think my, one of my favorite things about restaurants is just a really beautifully done meal. That's not something I could ever cook at home that is like all I really need to make me cozy and happy.
And I don't need food with a tweezer. I'm not that kind of girl. I don't need to go home hungry after a meal. I but I just went to Eataly this week, to their bar Milano and had the most luscious. And I would only use that word luscious pappardelle.
It was just, it was like beautifully done. I have no idea it wasn't a sauce and it was filling, but it was delicate. And I was like, this is just my happy place. I had wine. I did have one with it. It was just a very happy, happy night. And I can't cook that at home. You know that to me, that's all I need is. A really beautifully made meal with a lot of love. And, I'm happy girl. It's very good. I highly recommend it.
Megan: All right. Some New York City intel.
All right. We have a last question for you, the former teacher in me wants to know what homework assignment would you assign for us and our listeners? So on our episodes, we kind of like to explore something further. In the finance for the art world, or like maybe you have a suggestion for the people out there?
Justina: Yeah. When I was trying to explore my own financial wellness and understand it I listened to some other podcasts and blogs and things like that. And I definitely believe that women should talk about money more. I think the more transparent we are, the better it's hard. I did not grow up talking about it.
So it's definitely been an evolution for me as well. So I think the more transparent we can be about how other people budget and how other people's. Sort out their finances, but also improve them. It's hard to actually just get unstuck or know what you're supposed to do next and kind of follow that ladder or pathway to a better quality of life and more peace of mind in general. But, I'm interested in the emotional side of money and why people are just so stuck, struggling with shame and why it's hard for us to get past those, those difficult moments for ourselves, whether it's from our families that we grew up with and our personal finances from our parents and what we were sort of experiencing to coming to grips as a child and an adolescent, knowing that your peers have different amounts of money in their families.
I think that was such an interesting thing. And that might go a little bit more into psychotherapy. So you might need a third partner here for your podcast, but, I do think that like that side of it to me is just so fascinating and interesting, and I'm interested in like, why some people just kind of see money very logically and other people are very emotional about it and struggle to understand how to, to do those things.
I went to a liberal arts college and a lot of my peers while we loved the college. So, so much just wish that someone had just senior year, instead of talking about these critical thinking skills sat down and helped us budget for a household, you know, gave us some, some very hard skills that we can take away and feel as competent adult.
We can move forward with and feel some some balance. I think that's just a life skill that every single person should have.
And I definitely. Some, some research into how other people have over come that difficulty talking about money would be interesting but, maybe sort of getting to the heart of why people have difficulty with money and trying to trace back to that moment where they became a little more aware of the fact that money was such an important part of your life.
Whether you knew that from the beginning or you grew up in a family with a lot of money, or I find that a lot of my finance and banker friends just have such a better handle on sort of a pathway to understanding money than a lot of others. But I also know people in the finance industry that never had that in their own families.
They've only gotten it from work. And so I think trying to understand where you are in that journey and where you want to be as, as a good way to, to feel a little bit more peace of mind and understanding about it in general.
Friend: That's a tough one. That's like self-reflection.
Justina: Yes that's.
Megan: it's just so important as you said with women, especially that we just buckle down and say like, okay, this is a weird, awkward conversation, but we're going to have to just do it.
Justina: Yeah.
Megan: You know, like it's time.
Friend: One thing I would say, Justina to your credit. That is another thing I love about you, is, is just this, like when we go for dinner or have a drink, go for a walk, you don't mind getting into it. Like we talk about money, yours, mine, you know, the business, and I think that is part of what there's a connection there that provides for us a level of connection that is not surface level. And I, I appreciate that in your willingness to go there. it's awesome. So thank you.
Justina: Oh, yeah. No, it's it's, I think it's important, but it's also I'm on that journey too. I'm trying to figure. Had to be less emotional about money. I'm trying to understand that sometimes money is there and sometimes money is not there. And there is a lot of struggle that we all have and how are you spend our money.
And we always want more of it because it allows us to do certain things or achieve more for ourselves or our families. So it's, it's something I'm always working to understand better as well, but also. Not put too much pressure on myself. You can only do so much to improve your situation day to day, but little improvements will hopefully lead to some more bigger improvement down the line and a happier life moving forward.
Megan: Totally. I love that.
Friend: I love it.
Megan: Self awareness is your homework assignment.
Justina: Yes, self-awareness.
Megan: General and financial. All right. Well, that'll be, um, 100 weeks till our next episode, because that takes a while. Thank you for buying us some time. No, but in all seriousness, thank you for being with us today. This was fabulous. We love you.
Where can people find you on the internet?
Justina: Yes. I am on Instagram so you can find me there. I'm posting some fun stories and images for my events. I'm on Instagram at Fitting Fetes that's our company Fitting Fetes on my website, fitting fettes dot com.
Friend: All right, good. And we'll link to you in the show notes. So people who do not speak French will we'll find that easier. Fetes is French for party.
Justina: Yes. Thank you.
Friend: This was so great. Thank you. Justina
Justina: You're welcome. This was so fun. I'm so glad you guys are doing this.
Megan: It's like a fun little conversation because it's kinda like it's a little sweaty, you know, you're
like, Ooh, we're doing it. But also like, wow, that was illuminating.
Justina: Yeah, it's good.
Megan: Cut.
Friend: That was so decisive. That was like,
Megan: It's like, so it feels so good.
Friend: All right. We're almost done the show for today. I would just say Megan, that I'm feeling a little challenged by the homework from Justina today. That was, know, I think she's pushing us.
Megan: She is one of those people that is mysterious to me because she is graceful petite, but extremely commanding. And so like, you literally can't judge the book by its cover, which I just love. Right. She's like, oh, casually mentioning these humongous numbers. And we're like, excuse me, like, who are you? You know? So I just think we need to like, take a step back, even just anyone in any business.
Just take a step back and realize what you're doing and listen to yourself talk sometimes, because I don't think she realizes how powerful she is.
Friend: Well, even if she does, she's so humble about it, that she wouldn't dwell on it.
Megan: It was mind blowing. Love her.
Friend: Yeah. All right. Well, that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you so much to Justina for joining us. We had an illuminating discussion on the ins and outs of being a New York super fancy successful event planner.
And, we hope that hearing about her experience, working with clients and managing her own finances was interesting, and, as it was to us, a good challenge. As always, for listening to The Arts.
Megan: And be sure to come back next week for a discussion on a topic that my friend here says is really important, but I am personally terrified. Until then, this is Megan of Art by Megan.
Friend: And her friend, your patron of the arts.
Megan: Wishing you more art.
Friend: And maybe, a better understanding of your money.
Megan: This meeting is being recorded.
Friend: Okay.
Megan: All right, let's do the show open for episode six.
Friend: Yes. On today's
Megan: volume down. I'm sorry. Let's try it one more time. I'm so happy though. I sound better. Carry on.
Friend: fantastic. But Megan's ready. So now we're ready now. We're now we in business.
Megan: My favorite question, which is sort of like the background behind this podcast is me just blurting out to
Megan: What do you do all day?
Friend: And if you say
By the way, we'll just, it's So, hard. What we'll do is we'll I think we're going to bleep, or we'll just,
Megan: let me just rerecord, I'm going to do it one more time.